Geoff Wood: Welcome to the Welch Avenue Show, episode Number 61!
Our guest today is Kyle Doyle, who is @ D O Y L R L Z or “doyle rules” on Twitter for all you Billy Madison fans. Kyle is based in Des Moines but he’s really new to the startup scene. He’s fresh off an exit from his family’s business and he’s just starting to figue out what it is he wants to do next. So this conversation is a really fun look and some of the things going in our community with a set of really fresh eyes.
Before we get to the episode, two things you can do to help the show.
First, go to iowahour.co I O W A H O U R dot CO and register your Iowa-based startup for the big SXSW event on March 15. Whether you can be there or not, its important to register as a cohost organization to help us showcase our community on a national stage. If you are going to be there, RSVP for that, too, and I look forward to sharing a drink or two with you in Austin. Thanks to the Iowa Economic Development Authority, who is producing the event, for their supporting of the show.
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Now on to episode 61 with Kyle Doyle!
Geoff Wood: What do you got there?
Kyle Doyle: Just some thoughts that I wrote down for a business that I'm working with a little bit.
Geoff Wood: Nice. I thought maybe you prepared for the podcast and I was like ...
Kyle Doyle: Yeah. I actually was trying to write some notes down over at lunch, and I was like, "I have no idea what we're talking about anyways."
Geoff Wood: We keep it pretty loose, but Friday afternoon we had Senator Grassley here talking about patent form. Did you hear about that?
Kyle Doyle: I did. I was actually going to try to make it, but I had something going on.
Geoff Wood: It was the first time I've ever been around a senator in that way, but I was surprised like everybody ... I shouldn't have been surprised, but everybody came with their thoughts typed up, that was going to speak to him, but these are also CEO's and people that have to deal with this issue and have been sued under patent things.
Everybody had six bullet points that they were ready to go, and when they got called on, they relayed their story. It was really ...
Kyle Doyle: How did that meeting go?
Geoff Wood: It was really cool. I thought, I'm not in a case that I know of where a patent is going to be ... Although podcasting, there is a big patent issue with podcasting. We're so small that it didn't get to us, but it was interesting because it was like Casey's has patent issues and Blue Compass has patent issues. All where they've been sued by patent trolls over some element of their process.
With Blue Compass, it was like, we can't indemnify a company like Casey's that we might work with, because they're so much bigger and a target than we are, so that means we can't work with them. It means we can't keep the jobs and the work in Iowa. That's why it matters to you Senator Grassley, who also happens to be sitting against the chair in the judiciary that can help enact this reform.
Kyle Doyle: Yeah.
Geoff Wood: Grassley was super sharp too. My knowledge of Grassley is his Twitter. #AssumeDeerDead and all the great things that happened that at the Windsor Heights Dairy Queen.
Kyle Doyle: These brands, about how the History Channel is nothing about history.
Geoff Wood: Yeah, and women's volleyball scores from UNI. He likes to do that. He actually left there to go see the UNI-Drake women's basketball game. I thought he was great and sharp. I think he was like a minute-by-minute breakdown of what was going to happen beforehand. He came 40 minutes early just to walk around and meet the folks at Gravitate and talk about what it was. I was just like, "This guy is sharp."
I guess the other times I'd met him had been at conferences or he's just there to shake hands, but I felt more genuine this time. Because whether he knew what Gravitate was or not, before he got there, he certainly acted like it. In a way, where he's like, "Oh, I've read about you in the paper." Going through the different companies. I was impressed.
Kyle Doyle: Please tell me it wasn't just about the Bitcoin issue was what he was talking about, reading about you in the paper.
Geoff Wood: Probably not. Matt Patane from the Register was there and I'm like, "Well, he probably wrote whatever it is you read."
Kyle Doyle: No.
Geoff Wood: Grassley did say that the Register gets faxed to him. I wanted to think about the logistics of that. I hope that what happens is, somebody prints off the online version and faxes it, or do they have like a big flatbed and they fax different articles from the hard copy paper. I don't know. Because he's in DC and the Register doesn't deliver to DC obviously.
Kyle Doyle: Obviously, but the internet has allowed us to do just about anything we want to, right?
Geoff Wood: Yeah. I would be like, "You know, the Register is on the internet. You can just read the articles yourself."
Kyle Doyle: You could follow Twitter and the Register will just give you headlines if you really want to.
Geoff Wood: They will. It was good. I don't know that a whole lot of people in our community know you or what you've been up to. Maybe just start by telling us who you are and what you've been doing.
Kyle Doyle: Certainly. Are we recording?
Geoff Wood: Probably, yeah.
Kyle Doyle: Probably? Okay. Our Grassley conversations huh?.
Geoff Wood: We usually just start and then he picks it up at some point so it doesn't feel staged.
Kyle Doyle: Yeah, naturally.
Geoff Wood: Welcome to the studio, and okay ...
Chris New: Until now.
Kyle Doyle: Until now when you had sit there and you go, "Okay, now everybody sign up and make sure that you donate per episode that you download."
Geoff Wood: We do that. We put that on the top.
Kyle Doyle: Okay. Five cents, ten cents, five dollars, five hundred dollars per episode would be nice.
Geoff Wood: Five hundred dollars per episode is allowed.
Kyle Doyle: Yeah. We can do that. First of all, thank you for your introducing me to podcasting, because I was ...
Geoff Wood: It's your first time?
Kyle Doyle: This is my first podcast and I actually had never downloaded a podcast until we started emailing back and forth. I'm like, "Mm-hmm. Let me see what this is all about." I ...
Geoff Wood: Did you listen to one of ours or something ...
Kyle Doyle: I listened to several of yours to prepare. I didn't know if you were going to just bombard me with questions that I didn't know.
Geoff Wood: Did you go to ... Did you listen to the show we used to do? That were segment-y things?
Kyle Doyle: No. I listened to the last couple and then I was actually very intrigued on The State of Now that you did, and three different parts. It was cool, since I was at that event, and I was wondering what they were doing zoning out of the whole Gravitate. What was happening and they were focusing on, and Ben was doing a heck of a job. I neglected to say hi to him just because I was going, "Okay, he seems so in the zone. I don't want to ruin that focus."
Geoff Wood: What I liked about that is that, I didn't have to do anything with that. I got to shake hands and talk to people that came to the event, and then I got this other perspective going on by listening to it after the fact. Chris got the fun piece of editing all of those pieces together.
Kyle Doyle: You shot them back and forth? No, it was a great event, but just to give you a little overview of who I am. I'm a Des Moines native, born and raised here. Went to Dowling High School. Went to Simpson College, which half an hour away. I came back and ended up working for a family company.
We had it over in Clive. It was something that we had in the family for about 20 years. We actually had another company that was a predecessor to that. We ended up selling it about two years ago. I stayed on at standard employment agreement for two years to help out with the transition. They were bringing on new people and everything like that.
Then, once that came up, and we had new people and new spots, they wanted to go a different direction in one area. I was actually developing new territories when we sold it. I agreed to stay on just as a Midwest development sales rep if you will. I had about five different states in the Midwest where I drive off to Illinois for a week and then I'd come to Minnesota for a week.
It was a lot of miles on the car, but it was great to meet up with people from all walks of life in that Midwest area. Ended up taking a step back and dipped my toe into the startup community. That's where I think I met you, it was at Million Cups. Jeremy Poland introduced us. I'd just heard about that through [Matt] McKinney.
McKinney and I had a cup of coffee one day and everybody knows everybody in Des Moines through about three people. It's not that six degrees of separation.
Geoff Wood: I would say yeah. Any person is a phone call away in Des Moines, which is pretty awesome, I think.
Kyle Doyle: It is. Including Chuck Grassley.
Geoff Wood: Exactly.
Kyle Doyle: It was one of those things where, being an outsider being in an established business, that was 20 years old. It was 27 people when I came in. My dad started it from just him, and we went to Iowa State University to do some of our research and development. Then we actually used the University of Iowa Graduate Program. People actually graduated with their degrees based on our device.
We did the ignition interlocks. The breathalizers that go into cars. Then, we ended up using a Des Moines engineering firm to finish it off and put it into play. It's still in Des Moines. When we sold it, we had about 180 employees, and now it's just over 200. That background just gave me this passion to help businesses grow. It's something that's a small, just an idea, to go into something that can be a regional, national, international thing, is just fascinating.
It's been invigorating to dip my toe into the startup community in Des Moines and see how many great people we have, how many great minds we have around town, and how much talent that we've now started to cultivate. With what you're doing here in Gravitate, it's just amazing to see everybody using that community space to work with each other and create a better product than if they were just in their basements or in their garages.
Imagine what Steve Jobs would have been able to do if he was sitting at a bench with Bill Gates across and he could bounce ideas and questions off of each other. Can you imagine what kind of company we'd have then?
Geoff Wood: Yeah. That would be really interesting. I guess, I didn't realize the company was your family company.
Kyle Doyle: Mm-hmm. (Affirmative)
Geoff Wood: You said 20 years old, how long were you at the company?
Kyle Doyle: I was at the company ... I was doing it ...
Geoff Wood: Professionally, I guess.
Kyle Doyle: Yeah, for about a decade. For about nine years. I was in my 9th year. I worked with a lot of lawyers, that they always encouraged me to say, "You're in your whatever-th year, just so it may sound older. More wiser if you will."
Geoff Wood: Were you actually around the early days when the product was being prototyped and all of that?
Kyle Doyle: I was yeah. It was quite interesting because there was a couple of different devices that were out there, and Iowa was one of the first states to actually pass legislation not requiring, but allowing people to get their license back after they got OWI or a DUI with the ignition interlocks.
Two of our employees from the first company, which was a computer brokerage firm, actually went out and got arrested and they had to have these devices put in their car. That's when we found out about the niche. We tested it, said, "Okay."
Originally, just wanted to be a distributor. Just wanted to go out there and be somebody that represented a different company. Didn't find one that fit our needs or that was available. Somebody might have bought the rights or anything, so we decided to make our own.
Now, it's one of the biggest ones in the country. It's great to see it, and it was great to be a part of that whole grow-up period. It's part of my adolescence is watching, making decisions on, "Okay. All the employees get paid first and then you get whatever is left over if there's enough”.
That instills a lot of responsibility, but at the same time, it gives you appreciation for what startups and business owners go through. A lot of the times, when you're a Fortune 500 company, people think that the executives get paid first. That's not so in a startup as you know.
Geoff Wood: That's really interesting. How has that experience shaped you now, looking at version two of your career, or step two I guess, after this company.
Kyle Doyle: Chapter-
Geoff Wood: Chapter two. Yeah.
Kyle Doyle: Chapter two, chapter three, whatever you want to call it. It's given me a great perspective because it allows me to understand the importance of the most valuable asset in the company. That's going to be the people. A lot of times people, and everybody will say that, anybody is replaceable, including CEO's, CFO's. Anybody is replaceable, but the thing that gains value isn't going to be your computers.
Everybody knows that you're going to need a new Apple in five years. It's not going to be the hardware that you have out there. The widget you're selling. It's actually going to be the people that gain knowledge everyday.
In order to take a step back and realize how important of a role those people, that people played in it. Whether they're with us, or they've moved on to different things, each step had somebody that spearheaded that movement. It doesn't matter if it's the person you don't expect, or the person that's supposed to be leading the innovation.
You can almost associate every success, every step forward with the efforts and movement of people. It's great to be able to see that and to look for that. When you're investing in a company, or you're looking to go work for a company, a lot of the times, you're looking at the people that are involved in it rather than just what they do.
You can have a wonderful non-profit, but if the people there are dreary and they don't like it, and they don't believe in the cause, then that's not going to be the best fit for you. It's amazing how sometimes, you don't take into account how important the people are. That's what I think I've taken away from all that experience. I think it's a positive thing. I think it's a great lesson that a lot of people don't learn till way later on in life.
Geoff Wood: You're right. What are you doing now? Or what are you wanting to do now? Because you've been gone for how long from the company?
Kyle Doyle: November. It's about four months.
Geoff Wood: Are you bored yet?
Kyle Doyle: Great question. You can stay as bored as you want to. One of the nice things was, during the holiday times, I have a new baby at home, so with a baby at home that there's a lot of things that are happening at that time in life. It's been great. After being on the road so much, and missing a few of the things like smiles and whatnot, I appreciate that a heck of a lot more being able to do that.
I've been looking at a lot of different companies. Whether I want to go work for the, whether I want to work with them. Whether I want to, in some way, shape or form, being an exit strategy for them, since I've seen how that all works. It's nice to be in that position to take it, step back and evaluate what's going to be the best role for me.
No, I'm not bored because I'm talking to so many different people. It keeps to be exciting because all of a sudden, you open your world up to, "Okay, you don't need to make widgets. I can go and consult. I can go and help a business that didn't think that they were going to be alive for the next three months. Create a marketing plan that can sustain them for three years." It's invigorating to do that.
I also teamed up with one of my friends from college, and I've been working with her at BA Innovations. It's a marketing firm here, and we've been teaming up marketing and sales and actually coming up with an idea, or a thought process on how we can help small business and startups. Where they have a great thought process, they have a great development, and they just don't know what the next step is for the marketing and the sales, because nothing ever happens without a sale.
You can have the best thing in the world, but if you can't get somebody to buy it, your company is going to go out of business. We've actually started working on how we can do that in an affordable and reasonable way so you don't have to hire a whole marketing branch. You don't have to hire a whole sales branch. We can help you with that. We can help you either, if you want to go with the marketing plan that we've come up with on your own and do it, and you want to do direct mails yourself. You want to do email marketing yourself. You want to do all that, you can. Or else, if you want our help, we can certainly assist with that as well.
BA Innovations has been keeping me on my toes and keeping my mind sharp. That's fun.
Geoff Wood: I think that's a big market, especially if startups are your clients. I think there's a big need there anyway. I think my fear would be, that they don't have any money to pay you for those things.
Kyle Doyle: That's one of the big things that Brooke, the person that the company is named after, Brooke Avila, she was in the corporate world for ten years. She sees how the advertising agencies charge with an arm and a leg. That's one thing she wanted to take a step back from.
When I had the opportunity to help with the company, it was one of those things that I appreciated. Because I know being stuck in that situation and, we always say, "Make champagne on a beer budget."
We didn't have the money and we didn't have the expertise in certain fields. You have to go to people and you have to say, "Hey, will you help me out? I'll pay you when I can." Or, "I'll pay you X amount now, and when we get bigger, we'll still use your services." That's why we've taken that step and that direction saying, "Okay, we want to make it affordable, as one of our top three items on that list."
We don't want to give anything away for free, because that won't help pay the bills, but at the same time, it's one of those things where you can only have X amount of dollars for our marketing budget. I don't want to go over that because I know that that's the life and death of a company sometimes.
Geoff Wood: I think it will be interesting to chart that over the next 20 years or so, because I know we see that a lot in the legal industry, where BrownWinick and Davis Brown, and I think Shuttleworth & Ingersoll in Cedar Rapids, all have startup packages that are not free. Because if things are free, then they don't retain value. You're paying something, but usually they're flat fee, not what they would be to get the billable hours out of that attorney.
They know that, I think, they all come with the idea of, when you don't have money, let's give good service to you and then later on when you do have money, if you make it, you'll return that back. Overall, they know that long term, that's going to work. We've seen some financial institutions starting to go with that direction as well.
I think Saturday Mfg., has done that a lot with projects that I've worked on. I don't know if you know those guys, but they're the marketing, branding, they do 80/35's branding and things like that. Brian has helped, Brian Sauer's helped me out with lots of things with the signage of Gravitate. Stuff like that. All things that he did at really low cost, just to help out, just in knowing that we're going to stick with him for that.
I think that's a good model. It is really interesting to see if the return is there over time.
Kyle Doyle: That's the key to any business right? Put a hypothesis out there and then you test the theory. The other thing that we've been actually working on was, my past life, I've worked with a lot of attorneys and there's been a lot of churning in the attorney marketing aspect. Because, as you probably noticed, more and more, there's been attorneys on TV when before, they weren't allowed to.
It's interesting to read that legislation that allows attorneys to go out for that. Speaking with some people, they're afraid of what's going to happen to their firm if they don't market. They don't necessarily have the budget, because they're a one-man shop in Cascade, Iowa. At the same time if everybody in Cascade, all of a sudden, doesn't realize that they're there and they want to come to Des Moines, and they want to go somewhere that has William Shatner as their spokesperson, then that attorney is now going to not have a job.
Geoff Wood: Yeah, my wife's an attorney. Solo-practice attorney, so dealt with this from her perspective a little bit, and she's a new attorney. It's a second career for her. You talked about being new to podcast, one of my favorites is called 99% Invisible. There's an episode about legal marketing in there.
That's nationwide, so that it's State Bar Associations that govern that. I think Iowa is on the conservative end of what they allow attorneys to do, even with what they've opened up, and as compared to New York and places where they're just car dealers basically, advertising.
Which is really, yes, it's hilarious to listen to that episode. Some attorneys still think, to advertise is bad for their industry. They want to have this, "We're above that," mentality because we're dealing with the law and things, but can't. They've always advertised to, I mean. A buddy of mine is an attorney in Cedar Rapids does DUI law. I've been on the back page of the Gazette or the phone book in Cedar Rapids, because that's advertising whether you think it is or not. That's how they get most of their folks.
Kyle Doyle: Placement on the yellow pages.
Geoff Wood: Yeah.
Kyle Doyle: I represented Illinois and it was interesting, because when you get in the Chicago land area, or the suburbs, if you get an OWI, you get anywhere from 20 to 70 mailings from attorneys directly to your house saying, "Hey, we represent OWI's. We represent OWI's." It's just fascinating to see the different range of professionalism when it comes to that aspect.
Because you get some people that went to a marketing firm, they have a nice piece that, it looks professional and they have other people that are sending postcards that have their picture on the front. Then they have an open letter to the person that the mail carrier can read, that everybody can ... That says, "I see on the records that you have an OWI. Call us and we'll represent you well."
I'm going, "Okay, you don't necessarily want to advertise that to everybody that touches any part of my mail that my landlord gets this, what the heck's going to happen?"
Geoff Wood: Yeah, I guess it's public record, so there's probably some legality in what they're doing there, but it just doesn't feel ethical, necessarily to do that.
Kyle Doyle: Good taste. It's one of those things going, "Okay, yeah, I know you can find it out if you want to, but you don't want to put it on the front page of the newspaper, just in case somebody didn't hear."
Geoff Wood: I know that mail carriers are really interesting group to talk to. What they know about people on their routes is ... I'm sure some people get questionable literature all the time, and ...
Kyle Doyle: Your producer is already shaking his head. He might get a little bit of an interesting literature.
Chris New: We had a mail carrier on a coffee shop that I worked at one time, and he would, yeah.
Geoff Wood: He would ...
Chris New: He didn't go into details, but he goes, "Oh yeah, that gal over there is ordering foot cream or something." I was just like ... They don't think ... Exactly. It's the opposite end of going through someone's trash. It's like, you see what goes in or you can go through the trash and see what comes out. It's the same amount of information.
Geoff Wood: Yeah.
Kyle Doyle: Boy. It's things like that, that give you a ... There's a need for it in Iowa. I believe there's a need for, not necessarily foot cream, but good advertising for attorneys. It's one of those things where there has been there, the market for it, so you're not quite sure how you want to approach it. Do you go to the good old boys that have been doing this for years and years and have built up a, I guess, a stable of clients by word of mouth marketing? Or do you want to go to the new Drake law graduates and say, "Hey, let's get your name out there so we can get you some cash and…”
Geoff Wood: You should connect with my wife, because she does a lot of mentoring of new attorneys that are doing solo shops. Because she came out of school two years ago, right at the glut of lawyers that, everybody who went back to school in the recession, basically was out now. Firms weren't hiring like they had been traditionally. She did a lot of figuring out what it takes to start your own practice and now mentors a lot of folks. Connect you there.
Kyle Doyle: Foot cream is always a good ...
Geoff Wood: Yeah, it's probably a huge market.
Kyle Doyle: I'm sure, especially during the winter time, everything gets dried and cracked.
Geoff Wood: Yeah, absolutely. You had talked a little bit as well about, you mentioned investing. I don't know if you're doing that currently, but I know that's ... You're interested in that arena at least, and you've been to 1 Million Cups. What are the types of companies as you've become new in this, what's really stuck out to you as like, "This is a cool company. I'm surprised we somebody building this here in Iowa."?
Kyle Doyle: There's a lot. I'm always amazed at ... I've been amazed, let me put it that way, at the software-as-a-service. How many people are coming up with apps and they think it's a cool idea. They just don't know how they're going to make money at it. That's why I was fascinated when we walked through and you were giving me the tour and you showed me Hatchlings, and some of the other software-based companies because these guys figured it out. They know that they need a client-base. They know that they need to figure out something in there.
It's amazing to see how Iowa is developing that techie-software feel. You anticipate that on some of the coasts. You don't anticipate that more on the Midwest. When we were building widgets, we were the manufacturer or something. You had a tangible product at the end that you had to maintain.
Geoff Wood: And a market to sell it to.
Kyle Doyle: A market, captivated market.
Geoff Wood: Yeah, captured market.
Kyle Doyle: When you're coming out and you're doing something that is competing with the biggest names out there, Facebook's and stuff like that, and you're building it here in the Midwest, that's what's fascinated me. Whether they have a big enough niche. I think that's one of the things where we struggle with, because we need to build up that base. A lot of the times, even if you get everybody in your group of friends or your circle, that's not going to be big enough to sustain and to grow out to other areas.
That's one of the reasons why I actually really like investing, and at least looking at some of these opportunities. Because you know there's going to be another, not necessarily home run, but there's going to be something that is going to add value to life, to a service that's already out there. There's somebody that's already said, "Hey, why can't we do that?" They've been working on it and they have much better skills at coding than I do, because I took C++ back when I was in Simpson at one point.
Geoff Wood: That's more than I've done.
Kyle Doyle: I don't think I did very well in the class.
Geoff Wood: Do you think the fact they have a market that they know, they're already increasing revenue when they start talking to investors. Is that a pragmatic Midwestern thing? Because investors here are, maybe come from a manufacturing background, so they're used to looking for that as opposed to a Silicon Valley-type of, "We're just going to capture as many users as we can, and figure out how to monetize later."
Kyle Doyle: I think I may have hit a nail in the head. I don't know who I was talking to at the Gravitate opening, but we were talking about the same topic. We were going, "Okay, when you're on Silicon Valley, if you have nine startups that have failed, you wear that on your arm like a badge of honor." On that tenth one, you have people scratching at the door saying, "Hey, can I come invest with you? Can I come invest you? You know nine ways not to make a dollar. Let's figure out that tenth way to make the dollar."
In Iowa, you have a whole bunch of people that have worked hard to, I guess, establish themselves and whatnot. I'm not saying that the coasts haven't, but they haven't hit the home runs. They've done little things to gain whatever they've gotten, and when you go to ... You have one failed company or two failed companies behind you, they sit there and say, "Hey, why'd you fail?" It almost takes another hurdle to jump.
If there's not enough hurdles already in order to get money and investors when you're having a startup, that's another one where you have to overcome that objective. It's difficult. I think that's the Midwest mentality that's changing. You see a lot of these venture capitalists that are coming into Des Moines, and they're not huge funds and not billions of dollars, but you have Next Level that's in the building right next to you.
You have Midwest Growth Partners and you have all these people that want to invest in the Midwest, and they see the value in companies. Yeah, I do see that as one of the things that's different than the coasts in the Midwest that, it's a little more skeptical. A little bit harder, but I think that egg is getting a little bit easier to crack.
Geoff Wood: As an investor, do you like that that's the way it is here?
Kyle Doyle: I do, because it gets more people to jump out and do it. A lot of the times, people were scared to do their own startup. If they have a comfortable job that has good benefits, they don't want to come out and do something, even though it might change the way that life is. This has given an opportunity for more people to come out and say, "Okay, I'm going to take a stab at what my dream is. Then I'm going to hope that somebody's going to come along and invest in me."
At the same time, with more opportunities and more deals that are out there, the better stuff that you can invest into. That's what I really like about it. Does that answer your question?
Geoff Wood: What are you most ... Yeah, kind of. It's perfect. What are you most excited about as far as the future of the community here or your role in it? What's just really got you excited right now?
Kyle Doyle: I'm excited to see everything move forward and us get good people, and keep good people. There's always been the thought of the brain drain after you get out of high school, everybody that was in Iowa, wants to go to Chicago, just wants to go to L.A., just wants to go to the coasts. Being able to get those people in Des Moines, get those people in Cedar Rapids, get those people in Sioux City to stick around and share in the bigger thing that we have here. That's what gets me excited.
Like I said, the best asset that anybody can have is the people. If you can get somebody that's grown up with the Midwest values, to stay here and prosper, then you can ... That's going to be much better than trying to train somebody that's coming from somewhere that they didn't have to do the little things like drive through snow, train them into how to do that. That's what I'm excited about is, to keep the people here and to keep developing people into becoming what they want to be instead of just saying, "Hey, you need to do this."
Geoff Wood: Very cool. Folks that want to follow up with you, what's the best way for getting a hold of you?
Kyle Doyle: Best way to get a hold of me is email, firstname.lastname@example.org. Yeah, Kyle Doyle stole outlook.com first, so I had to add a D in there. You've got some really interesting emails I'm sure.
Geoff Wood: Yeah, I bet. Yeah.
Kyle Doyle: Kyleddoyle@outlook.com or else you can follow me on Twitter at @doylrlz. It was a cruel joke that my parents played on me when I was 17 and they got that license plate for me, so they could tell if I was speeding past them. If you see a DOYLRLZ license plate, that's me as well.
Geoff Wood: Is that Happy Gilmore?
Kyle Doyle: Yes.
Geoff Wood: Or no, Billy Madison.
Kyle Doyle: No, Billy Madison.
Geoff Wood: Going out.
Kyle Doyle: Yeah, Adam Sandler. O'Doyle rules, but O'Doyle doesn't fit on a license, but you need seven characters. Doylrlz is what I got for my 17th birthday.
Geoff Wood: You still have it?
Kyle Doyle: Yeah.
Geoff Wood: That's awesome.
Kyle Doyle: I still have it, and that's my Twitter.
Geoff Wood: That's perfect.
Kyle Doyle: With a picture of my dog. I'm like, "Okay, well might as well use it." I love it.
Geoff Wood: Thanks for coming in today.
Kyle Doyle: Hopefully, that was something that you can get somebody to donate five cents or ten cents for every website episode. It sounds good.